English 2850: Great Works of Literature II

“ Do I dare

Disturb the universe?

In a minute there is time

For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse” (45-48)

As we said Prufrock is very insecure about himself because of him being bold and thin, and we see how he struggles to go and talk to the women in the room. I think these lines are important because it is the center of his emotions and how he feels emasculated and has fear of the unknown (poemanalysis.com). If he dares to disturb the universe. The universe might be the educated women that are talking inside and the question is if he dares to disturb them with his appearance. We see that he immediately procrastinates by saying in a minute.

The line that I had a challenge with is line 48 where he says : “For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse” . The literal meaning I think is that the decision and revision of him finally going in the room and talking to these women will change in a minute, but I don’t think he ever made the decision to actually go in so that the next minute will reverse this decision. I think he keeps asking himself If he dares to do it, not that he decided to go in and then changes his mind.

https://poemanalysis.com/t-s-eliot/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock/

“Time for you and time for me/ and time yet for a hundred indecisions/and for a hundred visions and revisions/ before the taking of a toast and tea.” (Eliot 31-34)

In this passage of four lines, Prufrock seems to expect to meet a person, as the line “time for you and time for me” implies. While it is clueless to say who the expected person is, I assume it’s a female based on the following lines and the title of the poem. The author depicts that just for the taking of a toast and tea, Prufrock already has changed his mind for hundreds time. Going thru the cycle of making up one mind then soon erasing it, Prufrock’s battle with his inner voice is disclosed. He wishes he can man up and go interact with this female, yet anxiety creeps on him and feeds him fear. It eventually connects back to the theme of this poem, love. It is common and normal for a person to feel nervous or arbitrary to make a decision when in love. Eliot once again deploys the objective correlative technique as he does throughout the whole poem. (Shrestha) He doesn’t directly give away Prufrock’s personality to readers. Instead, he uses the image of the environment to convey Prufrock’s consciousness. In this passage specifically, the object is the concept of time. I personally am amused by the objective correlative technique. I find it quite clever and appealing.

Shrestha, Roma. “Objective Correlative in Eliot’s The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.” BachelorandMaster, 4 Sep. 2017, bachelorandmaster.com/britishandamericanpoetry/objective-correlative-in-the-love-song.html.

As Professor states in the lecture, the opening of revisiting the old place has some common points with the poem Line Composed a Few Miles above Tintern Abbey as both of them express the feeling of nostalgia. Lu Xun finds that everything has changed during his revisit. “When I passed the gate of the school, I found that too had changed its name and appearance, which made me feel quite a stranger”. Not only does he feel strange to this city, he also feels strange when he encounters his old friend Lu Wei-fu in the wine shop. Revisiting is part of the central theme of the story since this is a story about how people have changed during the time after their dreams are defeated by the reality. Revisiting the old place also enables me (Lu Xun) to revisit my old classmate’s life.

First of all, Lu Xun and Lu Wei-fu has connection with each other because they are classmates and colleagues before. They play together when they are young to go to the temple and pull off the bread of the statue and they share their thoughts on revolutionizing China. This is just their physical connection from superficiality. In addition to that, they have the same spirit for revolution and the longing for a better life. Both of them are supporters of the New Culture Movement where they want to introduce western education system to China.

In the Wine Shop is like a monologue of Lu Wei-fu just like T.S. Eliot’s poem we read last time. I think the narrator shares very little about himself because Lu Wei-fu’s story can represent himself to some extent, and even can represent the majority of Chinese scholars at that time.

For the question of artificial flower that raised in the class, my own opinion is that artificial flower is considered as superior thing over real flower in the story. We can see that, China was very underdeveloped at that time and anything from industrialized world was put at superiority. In the text, sugar is something that can represent wealth because artificial sugar is very scarce. Some logic can be applied to the explanation of artificial flower. Another insight that I have (though may not be correct) is that Lu Wei-fu wants to step out his small city to embrace the bigger world. He also wants Ah Shun to do that. So he goes far away to Tsinan, a larger city, to buy flower for her. It’s like a sign to encourage her to have broaden horizon.

The group who had this poem for their project gave me the inspiration to examine this excerpt more closely, for I felt that this excerpt holds a clue and is the key to understanding the main idea of the poem. Although I realized my interpretation of the poem differs from what the group came up with, it was still useful for me to visit their page. (https://thejaycaguete.portfoliobox.net/eng2850grpproj)

In the description box (p.541) it quotes from Dante’s Inferno:

“If I thought my reply were meant for one who ever could return into the world, this flame would stir no more; and yet, since none- if what I hear is true ever returned alive from this abyss, then without fear of facing infamy, I answer you.”

I have not read Inferno so to get a sense of what it was about and why it’s referenced in T.S. Eliot’s poem, I focused on Dante’s Inferno’s references in the video where this professor is paraphrasing what the excerpt entails and what happens in Inferno. In Dante’s Inferno, there’s a soul in hell who is speaking to Dante who says to Dante no one ever leaves hell so it’s okay that I tell my whole story to you because no one will ever know about it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=70&v=U2DeqZ9ryTc&feature=emb_title)

I wanted to figure out why T.S Eliot inserted this epigraph at the beginning of his poem? And most importantly what does it mean? I think that T.S. Eliot is doing a homage to Dante, a past poet from the 14th century who as I learned he adored and was obsessed over his poem. He’s continuing this legacy and passing down the “secret” that is passed down to a specific club. But the thing is that once he publishes this poem out for the public, anyone who can read and find this poem will know the secret and will become a part of this club. T.S. Eliot invites the reader in with the opening lines sort of like we are going on a journey through hell like described in Dante’s Inferno, except this time it’s Eliot’s version of hell and he is describing the world that he is a part of, he is giving us a special tour of this world. In other words, hell and Earth are synonymous. Eliot is passing down what he learns from what he has read and observes. When he stated: “If what I hear is true, I can answer you with no fear or infamy.” This means that if the rumors are true from what he has gathered, he is not afraid to let us in on it, give us the tea or spill the tea. I would like to know why the title of the poem called: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.

The central concern of the poem has to do with the protagonist’s despair and his worrying and these repeated questions of how should I presume? And how should I begin or try to explain to the reader that this world is a living hell or that his life is a living hell? Another thing that I’d like to know is what is this overwhelming question? Is it about the question of what happens when one dies? Does this question start from a religious point of view, of whether or not people’s souls go to either heaven or hell? The question could also mean: Am I dead and already being punished in hell? He states:

“If I thought that my reply would be

to someone who would ever return to earth,

this flame would remain without further movement.

but as no one has ever returned alive from this gulf,

The key phrases to focus on here: “this flame would remain without further movement. But as no one has ever returned alive from this gulf.” There’s the imagery of eternal flames that will never be put out much like in Dante’s Inferno. This flame could be a metaphor for hell and how hell’s fire (Earth’s fire) remains here on Earth never to be put out, thus, the eternal suffering. “No one has ever returned alive from this gulf.” The word gulf has two meanings. The first is a deep inlet of the sea almost surrounded by land, with a narrow mouth, for example, the Gulf of Mexico. The second definition which I would lean towards more but there could be a case for the first, but this one means chasm, pit, abyss, or void. 

I believe readers, like myself, will have somewhat of a difficulty analyzing this poem, or have a limited narrow understanding of the poem without reading Dante’s Inferno and analyzing it to its full extent, as well as knowing other great poems and dramas mentioned throughout it, it would also help to know the other references such as John the Baptist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist)

I’ve started out analyzing Eliot’s poem through scientific lenses mostly from some basic understandings of Astronomy and Physics because of the references of time and the universe and the relationship between the two, which is somewhat of a mistake to make but could be helpful nevertheless. So I’ve tried looking at it from a different perspective, peeking through a religious lens is probably more adequate because Dante’s Inferno influence on this poem is immense and its imagery and symbolism has many biblical references. When watching the BBC documentary of Eliot’s life, you learn that he was keenly aware of society and his senses were hypersensitive which helps. It could be that this poem was his way of reflecting back to us(the reader) the horrors he sees and feels, as well to learn from Prufrock’s failure of being afraid and paralyzed. In much the same way in Dante’s Inferno, Dante’s character in Inferno feels doubt, and questions if he’s worthy to continue the journey. It helps to know that while Dante is recognizing all the humanly pleasures in hell he is seeing a reflection of himself, which means that Dante wakes himself up, in other words we awaken. In retrospect, we are Dante from Inferno and the person who is our guide, our counselor, our servant, our advisor, is T.S Eliot- who was also Dante at one point in his journey. There is this amazing podcast I encountered halfway from finishing this assignment for a better understanding of Dante’s Inferno, it comes with a similar interpretation of how I feel both poems are about. Just because Eliot’s poem is grim, it doesn’t mean that there isn’t hope, for there is always hope, in some ways we are all the Dantes and Prufrocks of the world. (https://anchor.fm/robert-louis-abrahamson/episodes/Dantes-Inferno–Canto-1-ecjg4k)

Individual Analysis- Abdulla Al Sudman

In The Wine Shop, by Lu Xun, is the text that I can relate to because when you’re born in a different country and then you move to another one as a child, going back you see everything in a different light. As a child, you think the place you were in is perfect and ideal, in every single way but once you go back that’s when you realize nowhere is perfect. You begin to see that the social norms have aged poorly and a certain style of thinking can be taken in an offensive manner. They may hold beliefs that you disagree with immensely and completely dumbfounded by, but that what comes with a traditional society. That’s their way of doing things and it has been done that way for a very long time, so change comes very slowly. Of course, you like to go back to that place because you love it and it’s a part of you so you could never let it go entirely, not that you would even want to. Although, you get a new perspective of where you came from. So when Lu Xun goes back and is completely surprised by how things have stayed the same but some things are bad, I completely get it. It’s your home so of course you care for it but doesn’t mean that you don’t expect more from it. Certain things need to change and so you would hope that would happen sooner than later. Furthermore, when a culture is blocked off from the rest of the countries, it stays the way it is much longer and consequentially, doesn’t grow as fast. It’s easy to judge another country for living their life in a reckless and uncivilized fashion but it’s hard to admit that the way that you live your own life could be seen in the exact same manner. This type of surprise about your own culture only comes up when you go far enough away from it to understand these flaws. The people that came from it don’t understand how they may seem to the outside world, but when you become the outside world, you get a great understanding of the potential of the place you came from. And that’s what Lu Xun wanted to express.

Individual Analysis- Yanyan Chen

Reading Lu Xun is compulsory for me even I was only in the first grade of middle school. Lu Xun is hard to understand since his meaning is always beyond the text, requiring lots of knowledge in history, imagination and empathy. I remember that my middle school teacher spent a whole week in teaching us to analyze his single text Kong Yiji. I also remember that I only got 30% of the total points in a test about Lu Xun.

So, come back to the connection between In the Wine Shop and the world, I really appreciate Lu Xun’s attitude towards the life. Late nineteenth century and early twentieth century was undoubtedly the darkest period for China, but it was also a time full of hope, revolution, changes and great literatures. In fact, teenagers took on the responsibility of saving the country in old days by writing and spreading new ideas. It’s a prosperous time of novel ideas compared to China today. Arrogant people and governors in the Qing dynasty finally finds out that China has already been behind the development of the world for a long time and the country is too weak to defend itself from invasions. Thus, criticizing the government and generating suggestions is pretty popular at then. Lu Xun says, “May the Chinese youth don’t care about the cold look and just go up, not listening to the words from depressive people. If you can do things, then do things; if you can speak out, then speak out. Generate a little heat, emit a little light, like a firefly flickering in the dark. There is no need to wait for the torch. If there is no torch, then I am the only light.” (I just translate this part myself, because I didn’t find the English version on Google. I apologize for that if I have made any mistakes in translation.) Yes, of course, Lu Xun is not an optimistic person, rather, he is a pessimistic writer. But pessimistic doesn’t mean passive. Pessimistic is the highest status of positive from my understanding. He is pessimistic about China’s future because he knows how lagging we were, how corrupt we are. But he activity participates in the revolution and writing criticizing essays. Even there is no torch, he is willing to be “the only light” in the darkness. Perhaps that’s why he can write such great works.

Individual Analysis- Kevin Chen

Lu Xun’s “In the Wineshop”, reminds me of my early youth and the unattainable dreams that I once had. We all had a dream in our youth, only to realize how ludicrous they’re as we grew older. In Lu Xun’s “In the Wineshop”, the character Weifu shared a dream with the narrator of revolutionizing China when they’re still young and naïve, only realizing how unattainable it is growing up. The narrator’s encounter with Weifu in the wine shop is very significant because it marks both the beginning and the end of their dreams.

At early youth, my parents had always been preoccupied by work, my sole companion is the TV set I have lying in the corner of my bed. I was so fascinated by the world it introduced, that I tend to fantasize about myself as the protagonist of the show. As a child, I was very immature and resorted to violence when I failed to get my ways. I still recall having my mother come and pick me up often from school because I injured someone from my class again. I was very egocentric at that time, and I didn’t experience any remorse for my actions.

It wasn’t until I gained a broader scope of this world did the fire inside me eventually died down. I became the person I despise the most and developed a case of introvertism. I was very socially active in the past and now I get anxious just thinking about interacting with others. My past reminds me of the character Weifu, who is now “willing to let things slide and to compromise”. Perhaps it’s the realization of how insignificant we’re compared to the entire world that our blood runs cold. I am much like Weifu, we’re similar, yet different. I am still young, the fire inside me had diminished but not fully exhausted.

Life is full of surprises like Weifu once said “Has any single thing turned out as we hoped of all we planned in the past?” We cannot guarantee our success, but we can guarantee our failure. We cannot succeed without trying, at least there is hope if we do.

In the Wineshop Presentation Link

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?

I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.

I have read the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.

(Line 122-125)

This passage means that the author feels he grows old and thus he should behave like an aging man, wearing “white flannel trousers” and walking “upon the beach”. As he grows old, he is even more anxious about his unattractiveness. He is attracted by those beautiful and youthful mermaids, but he thinks they will not sing to him. I choose this passage because I think these four lines are parallel with the main idea of the poem by showing his anxieties, his longing for love and beauty and his thoughts that imagined life is superior than reality (Course Hero, 11:39-12:00). I looked up the word “mermaid” in the dictionary, and mermaid means “an aquatic creature with the head and upper body of a female human and the tail of a fish” (Mermaid, Wikipedia).

I also learned online the symbol of “peach” has meaning beyond the fruit in the text. In An Analysis of the Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock by T.S. ELIOT, the passage shows that “peach” can mean “marriage and immortality” in China, “two things Prufrock desire” and it can also mean “female genitalia” to show Prufrock’s “feelings of sexual inadequacy” and “ his worry that his balding head and thin physique earn him the scorn of women”. And, from this point, this passage is connected to the central concern of the poem by showing his fear of feminine and his wishes of living in imagined world with mermaids rather than real females.

For I have known them all already, known them all:

Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,

I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;

When I got to this passage, the first thing that came to my mind was that J. Alfred Prufrock was probably stressed about something, and now he was just over it. However, what it was that he was stressed about wasn’t really clear to me. From the passage, we can tell that he feels isolated and did not have anyone around him. He says; For I have known them all already, known them all: Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons….” I feel like for you to get to this point, where the time of the day doesn’t mean much, it either, either something is serving as an hindrance, or we have tried so much, and now we can’t anymore. tired.

I chose this passage, because it goes back to our present situation where we are under compulsory lock-down because of the pandemic, and there’s nothing we can do for now. Right now, most of us feel tired and are not motivated to do anything because we feel stuck at home, and like him, most of us have known them all already, known them all: Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons…” The time of the day doesn’t hold much value to us as it should, and most of us spend our time doing what we can do, and not exactly what we love to do.

T.S. Elliot uses symbolism in this work when he says; I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;”. That in my opinion just goes to show how little he thinks his existence has meant and how small in value it is. We could also say he uses metaphor when he says he measures his life with a coffee spoon as if though his life was coffee, bitter in taste. T.S Elliot also uses rhyme schemes in this passage and throughout the play. I believe he does this to make the poem have a smooth and interesting feel, that makes you want to continue reading despite its complexity.  He also repeats words in this passage like the word “I”, “Known”, and “Have”, which to me was his way of making it known to us the readers that it was really personal.

From what I personally observed from reading this piece, and after I did my research, I could say that this piece is about the inner monologue of Prufrock, who is plagued by feelings of alienation and inadequacy and is unable to take decisive action (Poem Analysis). The lines in this passage, further elaborate on how plagued he was by his feeling of alienation which connects back to the central concerns of the poem. He felt so bad that it didn’t matter what time of the day it was, it all felt the same, lonely.

https://poemanalysis.com/t-s-eliot/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock

Hedda is a woman of wealth. She does not work and any house chore that a wife would do is, instead, carried out by the maid, Berta. The multiple rooms and the tasteful decor furnishing the home, set at the beginning of Act I, implies Hedda lives a life of affluence and wealth.  Chandara is a low ranking part of the Caste System in Bengal, therefore Chandara is guaranteed a life of poverty with no ability to escape.   Although the two come from distinctly different backgrounds, Hedda, the protagonist from Henrik Ibsen’s play, Hedda Gabler, and Chandara, the wife of Chidam in Rabindranath Tagore’s short story, Punishment, are destined for the same fate, death. More specifically, both wives choose to meet their maker. But why do they choose death? And do both women choose for the same reason? Yes. Both women feel imprisoned in their daily lives. Both women choose death, because to them, death seems more liberating than life.   When speaking to Judge Brack, Hedda states, “I mean, for me, It’s liberation for me to know that in this world an act of such courage, done in full, free will, is possible. Something bathed in a bright shaft of sudden beauty”(834).   In context, the ‘act of such courage’ Hedda is referring to is suicide.  Liberation is the act of setting someone free or released, from imprisonment. Hedda is attending to the idea that it is liberating to have the free will to decide to live or to die.  On the surface, Hedda’s choices are far less complicated. She has the choice of either shooting herself and committing suicide or not shoot herself and commit to living.  It is important to note that Hedda mentions that it is liberating to know that such an act is possible. not necessarily liberating to end life.   Chandara, on the other hand, is granted a much more complicated scenario. She can either accept the blame of Radha’s death, which her husband assures her to do or deny responsibility and go against Chidam’s request. But to be in disagreement with Chidam leads to domestic abuse. The text states, “Chidam glared at his wife and said, ‘If I ever hear that you’ve been to the Ghat on your own, I’ll break every bone in your body.’ ‘The bones will mend again,’ said Chandara, starting to leave. Chadic sprang at her, grabbed her by the hair, dragged her back to the room and locked her in… He even once or twice wondered if it would be better if she were dead”(896). When it comes to living in a house under such detrimental conditions, maybe death is more liberating than life.

“And indeed there will be time/ To wonder, “Do I dare?” and, “Do I dare?”/ Time to turn back and descend the stair,/ With a bald spot in the middle of my hair-/ (They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”)” (Lines 37-41)

I chose these lines from the poem because I believe they provide the central concept and purpose of this poem. These lines explain how Prufrock is always questioning himself and that causes him to not do anything. He procrastinates by saying there will be time to do this later, and too much time passes and he ends up not doing it. This is what causes him to grow his insecurities. As time passes, he gets older and his looks fade, which makes him think that other people will find him unattractive. He wants to talk to the pretty girls but feels as though he is not good looking, which is why he does not take any actions. He allows his subconscious mind to take over by allowing his fears to stop him from doing what he wants. The repetition of the words “Do I dare” explains how he doubts himself and that causes him to refrain from actually taking the chance. These lines of the poem show how someone’s subconsciousness can really affect them. His subconscious made him think he was unworthy of love from a woman. When his subconscious came to light, it made him think about how others might see him. He thought they would view him as unattractive and old. This fear is what prevented him from making his move and meeting a woman. What still confuses me about these lines from the poem is if it is ever too late for him to take the chance and finally do what he has been wanting to do throughout the poem. Usually I procrastinate until the deadline is near. But when is Prufrock’s deadline? 

Here is the link to the recording of Monday’s Zoom call.  We discussed T. S. Eliot and the literary and cultural context of the early twentieth century.

https://baruch.zoom.us/rec/share/wNJYdbv5yVFIepHWxRCDd6kAR9W9eaa80HMe-qcIy0iYmCKSljLee9ya7h7dmL0i Password: 5A!+$g9%