Peer Response Post

Similarities and Differences of Bach and Descartes

I agree with Jenny when she stated that Descartes both supports and challenges Bach’s belief that school doesn’t designate our future. Bach dropped out of college and strongly believed that we do not need to be confined into an institutionalized setting in order to be knowledgeable and successful in life. All throughout his life, Descartes loved learning and was “ardently desirous of instruction” (Descartes 2). However he completely changed his mind one day and stated that he “had advanced no farther in all my attempts at learning” (Descartes 3). Therefore Descartes and Bach are similar in that they believe there are alternative methods of learning besides at school.

However, their approach to this conclusion differs and this is where Descartes challenges Bach’s belief. Bach dropped out and stayed out of school to gain knowledge elsewhere. Descartes on the other hand,  continued to stay in school despite his earlier doubts and still firmly believed that it was essential. Therefore I agree with Jenny when she stated that Descartes still had hope in the effect of his studies towards his learning but Bach only found enrolling in school any longer to be a waste of his time. Bach left to pursue his passion and learn computer programming.

Peer Response Post

Bach vs. Descartes

I agree with Jenny Chou when she says how Bach and Descartes share similar views on school. Bach had shared his view on school as being not important and that school is not necessary for education (Bach). Just like him Descartes says that even though he went to “one of the most celebrated schools” (Descartes 2) at the end he had more “doubts and errors” (Descartes 3). So basically they both agree that school isn’t necessary because in some way or form it distracts you. Like Bach had said, “I believe it was interfering with my education”(Bach) and also how Descartes says about education leading to doubts and errors show that for both school had a negative impact on them, but their messages were still very different. Bach said school wasn’t necessary, but Descartes didn’t say that instead he still agrees that school is important because he still continued school even after realizing it was creating doubts for him.

I also disagree with Jenny when she states that Descartes had hope that he would still learn from going to school and Bach just thought it was a waste (Bach). I disagree because I think Bach dropped out of school because school was “tearing him down” (Bach) and he even said that “there are schools that would have been good for me, I never found one” (Bach). So from this I think if Bach had found that school that was right for him than even if he didn’t learn much he still would have continued school just like Descartes did. Maybe Descartes just got lucky because for him it might have been his type of school and that’s why he ended up staying in school

Free post

Truth

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In both piece of reading, Rene Descartes and John Locke provide ways to find the truth. In “Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason, and seeking Truth in the Sciences”, Descartes addresses four principles to seek truth: first, not to believe in anything until you have evidence to prove it; second, divides problem into many smaller part so you can solve it easily; third, starts with to easiest problem and work you way to the most difficult one; four, to review the progress in order to make sure nothing is left out. I agree with Descartes about his four laws of finding truth because it makes truth more objective, especially in the Enlightenment Era, without technology, there is very little way to prove something. Descartes’s way to seek truth in more on the general level, you can apply to almost everything. In the other reading, “An Essay concerning Human Understanding”, Locke points out that it is not just enough to have evidence to support you belief so you call it the truth, you have to give reason to it. I think what Locke trying to say is that you must make “your truth” make sense to you. Truth is not what you want it do be and you must give reasons for your beliefs. In my opinion, Locke’s idea of truth is rather subjective compares to Descartes; since Locke says truth is come from reasons and reasons are self-evident beliefs.

 

Through the lens post

Contradictions of the Traditional Education System

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In Secrets of a Buccaneer Scholar, James Bach is explicit in his views that school is not as significant and mandatory as education (Bach 3). He differentiates school from education and encourages “at risk” kids to look at him (Bach 2) not just as a high school dropout, but as a high school dropout who, contrary to belief, is successful and works at the well known company: Apple (Bach 1). To him, school is merely a setting structured for inflexible tests and restrictions to passions and interests (Bach).

Through this lens of Bach’s, it is evident that Rene Descartes’ “Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason, and Seeking Truth in the Sciences” both supports and challenges Bach’s belief that school doesn’t designate our future. In the beginning of the paper, Descartes states that he was “ardently desirous of instruction” (Descartes 2) and therefore, studied and relied on letters as his primary source for “a clear and certain knowledge of all that is useful in life” (Descartes 2). A few lines further into the paper; however, Descartes realized that through studying at “one of the most celebrated schools” (Descartes 2), he only stumbled across “doubts and errors” (Descartes 3), resulting in his change in opinion on relying on study to gain knowledge (Descartes 3). Here, it is clear that Descartes supported Bach’s argument.

Although Descartes realized that his studying in school no longer advanced him in learning (Descartes 2), he still continued his studies on the remaining brink of hope he had in school that the “languages taught in… [the studies of the schools were] necessary to the understanding of the writings of the ancients” (Descartes 3), challenging Bach’s argument. Descartes still had hope in the effect of his studies towards his learning but Bach only found enrolling in school any longer to be a waste of his time (Bach 2).

Bach also states in his book that “[k]nowledge is part of my education” (Bach) which, according to John Locke’s “An Essay Concerning Human Understanding,” is not innate but acquired since it is something you are continuously building on (Locke 2). Knowledge that brings improvement is what Bach considers education (Bach) and Locke states that it is through experience that “all our knowledge is founded, and from there it ultimately derives itself” (Locke 4). The experience and traveling of Descartes’ after he “abandoned the study of letters” (Descartes 4) are all part of his “knowledge,” according to both Bach and Locke, especially since it has allowed him to “secure [his] improvement” (Descartes 5).

Close Reading Post

In search

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I felt that in both readings that were assigned there was a unified theme,  which is the search for truths. In the Rene Descartes article he mentions that, even with all of the disciplines and knowledge he attained in school there were still questions that no text book or reading was going to answer, more of a internal understanding of what one perceives as truth.  In the John Locke piece he mentions that man is not permitted to follow his own thoughts in the search of truth and both points are similar in the idea that one had to believe in a ideology, a practice or a thought for it to be considered truth and even then it varies on ones experience in coming to that conclusion of that truth.  I liked that Rene journeys he had a set of rules that made him less objective, judgmental to others thoughts and beliefs , I felt that his method did allow him to look past his own views and not limit himself to his own view to learn more.
I like how in both articles there is a questioning of the conventional thought and that limits do more harm then good, I personally believe that one should always challenge them selves and there way of thinking for personal growth.

Announcements

Assignments and Theory Think

Reminder that for Wednesday, you will read the readings,  work with your temporary groups to do a Theory Think, and then post your own individual posts.

A couple of you have asked for clarity on the Theory Think.  There is a description of the Theory Think assignment on the site.   (It is under Project Check ins, since technically is part of the work that goes into helping you articulate your own theory in your project).

At any rate, you can click HERE to access it;  I have also inserted links to the page on the course schedule.

Close Reading Post

Perspectives on Institutionalized Education

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James Marcus Bach’s, “Secrets of a Buccaneer Scholar” challenges the idea that one needs to go to school to be successful. He uses his own life experiences and accomplishments as examples of why school does not necessarily play a large role in the contributions of one’s success. He claims that if someone wants to truly be successful, all they need is to be motivated enough to reach their goals. “I left high school because it wasn’t helping me. I felt that I was wasting my time. So I developed my own approach to learning.” (2).  He states that all school does is waste time and blocks you from learning what you really need to learn to reach your goals. Bach explained to the class about how he dropped out of high school and studied hard on his own to get himself in the position he held, working as a software test manager at Apple.

Kanye West, in contrast, advocates that higher education is much needed to become successful. Although he is a successful college dropout, he explained that he had to work extremely hard to be lucky enough to make the fortune he made. He encourages people to take advantage of every opportunity they can, and states that a college education is a strong advantage a person can have in the real world.

Although Bach and West have differences in their opinions on schooling, they do share one similar perspective; the current school system is flawed. Bach argues that the school system is flawed because the students are forced to think that the only things that matter are what they learn in school. Kanye West says that the school system is flawed because the current curriculums are not relevant to the majority of the students’ interests. “‘So why not start a curriculum that teaches music production? Come on, get with the times. People are so behind. There’s poetry classes, but why aren’t there rap curriculums? It takes people like myself to stand up and say this is part of our culture, why not use it to educate.'” Both Bach and West encourage people to work hard to pursue their interests.

 

Free post

The Buccaneer Scholar – Maximizing Your Education

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In the online excerpt of the Buccaneer Scholar by James Bach, there is a clear emphasis on the importance of education and how its significance can influence a person’s life for the better. Bach, who works at Apple and is apparently unhindered by the fact that he was a high school dropout, tries to encourage a group of at-risk kids about the fact that there are alternatives to getting a meaningful learning experience. Bach exclaims that, “Education is important. [However] school is not. I didn’t need school. Neither do you” (1). The statement not only surprised the kids, but also created a sense of uneasiness between Bach and the teacher, with the latter labeling his speech as dangerous.

I believe that Bach dismissed the teacher’s comments about his speech mainly due to the fact that he wanted to create a sense of justice for the kids being that going to school and following the institutionalized principles set in place doesn’t necessarily work for everyone. Additionally, I believe that Bach is presumably going by the gesture that everyone has a different way of learning and understanding things and that merely taking tests and accepting a teacher’s word for a specific subject matter is not exactly getting an education. He later reinforces this belief later on in the excerpt by stating that, “No one on earth has a choice about whether or not to be educated. But we do have a choice about what form that education will take. It’s a life’s work” (1). As such, getting an education is determinant upon what we aspire to learn rather than what we are forced to know.

In Kanye West’s response to getting an education, there are obvious distinctions that are apparent in contrast with Bach’s ideology. Before performing at a concert for the Santa Monica High School, Kanye discusses the fact that it is possible to be successful without going to college. However, he later states that, “Life is hard. Take advantage of your opportunities” (Moss). As such, this implies that it is a better option to go to school and to prioritize the opportunities at hand. In spite of this, both Bach and Kanye do have one particular overlapping stance in regards to getting an education and that is the fact that they were both motivated to learn as much as possible on their own rather than focusing on school.

Free post

Kanye Vs Bach

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Both articles of reading personally I found very interesting, based on my personal views on the school system with its flaws and benefits.
I found the topic and the points that were brought up valid on all ends from Bach view on not needing school to get a proper education to the concerns that the teachers had in regards to the student interpreting his message the wrong way. The teachers had their comments about Bach speech because they felt that it would encourage an attitude in which students would not feel a need to come to school and that they can do it by themselves that there does raise a number of problems. Some students aren’t disciplined as Bach is, he studied for hours on his own time some students might not have developed that skill yet which if not school is necessary to build such disciplines. In comparison with the Kayne west piece he does encourage the kids to stay in school and that it’s important to do as much as possible, have a backup while you pursue your goals because while he was in the music industry it wasn’t a sure thing and had to go back to a regular job at certain points of his life. The overlap that I do see is the idea that if you apply yourself then you can be successful but it does acquire a level of discipline and effort on one’s part. Based on the definition and the origin of the word in correlation with the reading I would say that the term and the ideology of not following normal ways of living in regards to the buccaneers and learning from the piece is similar in that respect.The limit is the term or the way of learning might not be accepted by people with more traditional ways of learning or jobs etc.

Free post

Irony

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  1. This semester we are discussing the topic “school isn’t everything.” It happens to be very ironic since Professors usually persuade students to attend school, making it seem like the most important thing for his or her development as a teenager. This idea relates to our class on Monday, August 31st. In class we watched a music video of Kanye West singing a song that is part of his album “College Dropout.” This song was about Kanye singing to kids about dropping out of College and just getting by. It also involves drugs and profanity.
    Now although people may believe this song is inappropriate to say to students, it is a positive thing in a way. It gives these students the prior knowledge that there is life beyond school. School for them should be a means to get to your ultimate goal; success. I believe that the selection of this course topic sends the same message. We are all in school to attain everlasting knowledge but it is not everything. The truth of that statement goes so far as to the teacher being able to admit it herself.
    We are reading a novel, Secrets of a Buccaneer Scholar which elaborates on this notion of life beyond school. Written by a dropout who led a group in Apple Inc., this novel should be really interesting.

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