In books 21-24 of the Odyssey, Homer contines with the story of Odysseus and the Goddess Athena’s plans to kills the suitors, now with the aid of Penelope influenced by Athena. She advices Penelope to hold a contest, whoever wins she will marry and leave the house, this was used as a distraction for the suitors so that Odysseus could execute his plans for them. Odysseus succeeds and kills all the suitors, then he was ready to reveal himself to the remaining servants and to his wife Penelope.
My interpretation of Him revealing his identity finally to his wife that really stood out to me was, the fact that Odysseus felt he had to keep his identity hidden from his wife Penelope the entire time since being back in Ithaca. Telemachus knew who he was even some of his servants knew before her. And he only revealed himself to her in the end after he plotted and killed all the suitors, but when he did reveal himself to her in the end and she didn’t react to his homecoming in the way that everyone thought she would, Penelope ‘s love for him was questioned by her son Telemachus he said to her “Mother, how can you be so hard, holding back like that? Why don’t you sit next to father and talk to him, ask him things, no other woman would have the heart to stand off from her husband who has come back after twenty hard years to his country and home but your heart is always colder than stone”. But I felt as though Odysseus didn’t trust her enough to be apart of what he had planned for the suitors, so why should she just welcome him back with open arms.This to me seems to be a huge double standard, why should Penelope just take his word for who he is after all these years when he didn’t trust her enough with his plans, he could have come to her first with his secrets and plans for the suitors but he didn’t he choose to keep everything from her ,I felt like she is in her right to question his identity at this point, or be apprehensive towards him.
Another part in the story where we can see this double standard by Odysseus towards Penelope is while talking in the Hall and he says he’s tired and wants to rest, Penelope says to the Nurse, “bring the bed out from the master bedroom, The bedstead he made himself, and spread it for him with fleeces and blankets and silky coverlets.” And Odysseus replied ” By God, woman, now you’ve cut deep. Who moved my bed?” He instantly becomes crazy with jealousy, the thought of another man just moving his bed, he could not bear to hear her speak, but in earlier stories on two occasions Odysseus made love to the goddesses Calypso and Circe for years, not thinking about his wife’s feelings about what he was doing.Throughout the text we can see this double Standard that Penelope had to endure while Odysseus was just allowed to do whatever he wanted.
I really like the two points that you made about book 21-24. Penelope , Odyssey’s wife didn’t accept anyone after he left Ithaca even though she wasn’t sure he was alive or dead.She waited all these years with sorrow for a person who didn’t even trust her enough to tell her his plan to kill the suitor. odysseys even told Cowherd and swineherd (book 21) but not his won wife. So her reaction after knowing odysseys was back wasn’t surprising for me. Or may be if we think it positively probably Odysseys wanted to give his wife all the good news together so he kept it secret as long as he kill all the enemies.And another point that you made Penelope testing him with the secret of bed, was right because she just can’t believe a beggar saying he was odysseys and welcome him since she didn’t believe anyone all these years. I think by Odyssey getting angry for the bed Homer basically wanted to show how the position of the women in society during that time was and how they used to be treated.
I definitely agree with some of the points you brought up. To me it also seemed like Odysseus was being in a sense a hypocrite. I remember the part when Odysseus reacts to Penelope questioning and testing him. He immediately reacts to her having supposedly moved the bed and I also thought this was Odysseus showing his jealousy and man pride. Yet later on when he and Penelope are in bed, Odysseus tells her about his stories but doesn’t mention that he slept with Calypso and Circe. As far as we know those were the two women he slept with but there could have been more during those 20 years he was gone for. I think that although he was very happy to be home he did show some of his “double standard” nature of his personality. Even Athena makes a remark before she casts sleep on them both in bed.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on these final chapters of The Odyssey. I agree with your analysis to some extent, I agree that it is unusual for both Odysseus and Penelope to hold back on their feelings for each other. However, I do not agree it is about a double standard. Instead, I think they hold back because their love is a link of there minds and soul and not of wealth or beauty. Therefore, they both see it necessary to test each others intentions and loyalty in order to see pass-through their appearances. The thing that confirms it all is the “Bed Secret”, this secret represent their love for their love is a link between their minds and soul. No one else could’ve know this but them two.
I really like your interpretation about books 21-24, I agree that the idea of not telling Penelope about his plan, makes Odysseus contradictory about the trust he has on her. On the other hand, the scene in which Penelope tests Odysseus’s knowledge of the bed, was pretty clever. I think she realized that she can not expect anything good from people with a double standard.
I also agree with your analysis but also think that given this period of time these sorts of interactions were purely conventional. This whole double standard does not fit into our lives today so it’s easy to assume that he simply doesn’t trust her. I also think that maybe we do not give their relationship enough credit. We see Odysseus’ respect for Penelope in his loyalty to her. As stated above (E.Tochimani’s post), we see a very strong connection between the two characters in this chapter. Odysseus did not once think it was possible to replace Penelope nor did Penelope once give in to simply agreeing to marry one of the suitors. They are in fact “linked” at the minds and we see that they have both proven to be extremely cunning in their own ways.
I definitely agree with your point that there is a double standard in the relationship with Odyssey and Penelope. However, the fact that Penelope hesitated to acknowledge that Odysseus actually returned is quite respectable. After all, she’s been told by many throughout the course of twenty years that Odysseus was in fact dead. As an individual, there’s a difference between being hopeful and being clueless. After a certain point, I’m sure that Penelope had accepted that her husband had died; it’s been twenty years. As a result, it’s understandable to see why Penelope didn’t show much emotion at the fact that Odysseus may have returned, much like Telemachus did. She’s older and wiser to know better than to continue “jumping” to conclusions. All in all, Penelope then proceeded to ask Odysseus a question that only he’d know, regarding to the construction of the bed. This was where Penelope sighed in relief, with the book ending in the two making love. In my opinion, I believe that Odysseus was startled by the lack of excitement shown by Penelope, which goes back to the idea of the double standard. As you stated, Odysseus has continuously been disloyal to Penelope, while expecting her to stay committed. This results in a very controversial ending to the book, where Penelope is complete unaware of all of Odysseus’ external affairs.
I like how you talked about double standard, why should Odysseus trust Penelope after all this years? or vice versa.
But I think he didn’t trusted her because, as we can tell he was a very wise man and also because after knowing how Tyndareus’ daughter killed her own husband, he became a more aware man. That’s why I believe he didn’t included her in his plans against the suitors, he wanted to test her before. For me Odysseus took this in his advance, he didn’t told Penelope he slept with Calypso and Circe. Nonetheless, twenty years have passed and times change, although Penelope had the opportunity of marrying a suitor she still had hope in her heart that Odysseus might come back. Nevertheless, when the nurse woke her up to tell how Odysseus came back and took revenge on all the suitors, Penelope didn’t believed her and I think she had the right to do it, after twenty years of fidelity.
Thank you for sharing your thought on books 21-24. I strongly agree with some of your points. Throughout the whole poem, we can observe Odysseus’s behavior and decisions made. In my opinion, especially in the last 4 Odysseus’s identity is finally revealed. I feel like there are moments in the books, where he behaves unacceptably towards the old nurse, his friends, and even his wife. I also believe he thinks too much of himself. Such treats as pride, jealousy, and high self-esteem are definitely appropriate to him. I also believe he never set an intention to save his wife from sufferings but mostly to become a King of Ithaca again. I don’t believe he was doing it in the sake of love.
Overall, I do support your idea of a double standard.
I like the point that you brought up about it being understandable that Penelope doesn’t immediately show her happiness because of just how long Odysseus has been gone. We were all expecting for her to rejoice once her husband returned from his 20 year long voyage, but in fact, it’s clear why she felt almost indifferent when he came back. Having read the Poem, and knowing about what transpired during his voyage makes us get it even more , because, you are right about there being a double standard. Odysseus has just killed a hundred young men from his Land who tried to marry his wife, after she spent years holding them off waiting on him to return, while he, was going through periods of philandering and putting off his return ( Circe etc). Having said that, I don’t really agree with the second part. I believe that it was crucial for him to keep his plans to himself and not tell too many people, even his wife, who was one of the people who waited on his homecoming the most even if it doesn’t seem like it now, so that he could execute it correctly. But with the info you provided we could take it a step further and assume that Odysseus hasn’t fully conquered his hubris. Could this entitled behavior come from the constant help he received from the Gods throughout the book?