23 thoughts on “Independent Assignment #1, 7/11/22”

  1. Questions about the opening to A Room with A View

    1. It is more modern and less traditional, it is more human? Romance but has more to it than just romance. I am also getting an entitled tone from it and the others presented more of a relationship between men and women, with the whole fortune and marriage. Where as this has two women troubled about different things.
    2. Yes, I feel some type of tenacity coming, like the character is going to surprise me and be a powerful woman lead character.
    3. Bartlett being bothered with the view and not being able to see the Arno while Lucy is more concerned with the fact that the place was so English? And not authentic, not much Italian she is more thrown off with the fact that The signora had a cockney accent and seeing people like themselves

    • Some astute observations here. What makes this book seem more human and modern than the others? And why is Lucy so bothered by the fact that she’s surrounded by English people? What does she want?

    • It has more feelings ? It’s not just a view but a yearning for life and freedom. I think she just wants to get away from England and that what makes her so triggered, she’s in Italy but it is just reminding her of what she wants to get away from.

  2. The opening passages read in class put us in the mind of the narrator, whereas this opening paints a scene for us that includes setting and conflict. I guess this would be what makes the novel feel modern as most of old literature dealt with the internalized dialogues characters had with themselves about societal expectations, whereas in A Room with a View the dialogue about societal expectations is externalized and readers get a sense of perspective outside of its main characters.

    Forster pulls us into the situAtion by having the main characters outwardly express their concerns and feelings. This shows readers that Miss Bartlett and Lucy had expectations about their room, the view they would get from it, and the accent of the Signora.

    Lucy and Miss Bartlett imagined they would be getting rooms with a pleasant view of London, looking out towards London’s nature. Instead, the room looks into a courtyard, on the north side opposed to the south side. Their desires feel a bit similar so far, as both want the other to have a view of the Arno, presumably both trying to be polite and maintain appearances. They seem to have an idea of what type of environment they are trying to situate themselves in and how it might represent them. The narrator describes Lucy’s point of view, describing “two rows of English people”, “the row of white water bottles and red bottles of wine”, and “the portraits of the late Queen and the late Poet…”, while then after Lucy asks Charlotte if she believes they are in London and says “I can hardly believe that all kinds of other things are just outside,” showing that Lucy has expectations for the type of London she would like to be part of

    • I agree that we are presented with a situation from an external point of view. But modern novels, as you’ll see, are very often concerned with subjective and psychological experiences.

      Also, the setting is Florence, Italy, not England. It’s understandable that you might think they were in England since everything in the hotel seems English. That’s exactly what bothers Lucy. She clearly wants to get away from England.

  3. Unlike the two passages that we looked at in class, A Room With a View begins with dialogue instead of narration. This type of opening feels more modern as the author is trusting that the reader will understand the characters and be interested in them without having to first see them and their backgrounds described at the beginning. Unlike in Middlemarch and Pride and Prejudice, we are not given biographical information or information about the society by the narrator. Instead, the reader needs to find this information within the dialogue and orient themselves as they read to the world of the novel. Also, the plot of well to do people traveling to the continent (and often finding trouble or disappointment) seems to pop up in a bunch of books from the late 1800s and the early 1900s. (eg. Widowers’ Houses by Shaw and The Sun Also Rises by Hemingway.)
    The opening of the novel definitely made me want to read more. That the novel opens with characters complaining made me want to know more as it seemed like a somewhat odd way to begin. As I said above, his use of dialogue instead of narration to begin the novel as well as the novel opening in medias res makes the opening compelling.
    Lucy and Miss Bartlett arrive at a hotel in Italy only to hear that the specific rooms that they had been promised were not available and to see that the hotel was entirely populated by English people. Miss Bartlett is primarily annoyed because she had wanted their rooms to have a view of the Arno as they had been promised, while Lucy is primarily upset that the place that they are staying feels like it could have been in England (complete with a Cockney hotelier) and does not instead feel “authentically Italian”. Secondarily, Lucy is also upset over the rooms and Miss. Bartlett is dissatisfied with the food. This information is conveyed through the dialogue as Lucy and Miss Bartlett are obviously complaining about what they don’t like.

    • Great articulation of what distinguishes this narrative from the other two. What do you think we learn about the two characters and the difference between them from their initial reactions to the hotel?

  4. The opening passage of A Room with a View is the antithesis of what was reviewed from the novels Pride and Prejudice and Middlemarch because the narration instantly centers around information that would have to deal with the environment that the character is living in. Forster, on the other hand, isn’t a narrator that gives his character, something of a predetermined fate that isn’t mocked with the formality of Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice, or the quiet, observant description of George Eliot’s Middlemarch. But instead opening up with a quote executed by Miss. Bartlett, Lucy’s cousin. There is an acknowledgement of their character through their dialogue and their behaviors.

    I have the hankering to read more of this novel. Forster cleverly brings the reader further into the book because he opens the books with an enchanting sentence starter. In continuing this opening scene, Forster displays the matters of a room, which is seen as mundane in everyday life.

    Lucy and Miss Bartlett are dissatisfied with their room that they have been given for their stay in Italy. It was irritating for them to experience that the room that they wanted wasn’t given to them. Charlotte Bartlett was hoping that they would have to see the Arno River, Lucy knew that she wanted this. There is also the thought that Lucy thinks that the place is rather English, and she informs her cousin about the idea that they are in London.

    • Some really smart observations here about how this narrative is different from the other two we read. Why do you think Forster starts with dialogue rather than description? What does this capture about modern life?

  5. This opening passage differed from the ones we considered in class because it is heavy with dialogue between characters rather than being introspective. It has a modern touch to it compared to the other opening passages we have seen since it contains a bit more of colloquial language and structure. This dialogue feels easier for one to interpret since it’s closer to the language I currently use compared to the language used in Pride & Prejudice. The dialogue, instead of talking about the society in which they live in or about romance, touches upon more of a casual and feeble topic such as, for example, what ingredient was being used for soup.

    I want to read more since I do want to know more about who Miss Bartlett was referring to in the beginning and what’s the background between her and The Signora. Forster pulls us into the situation by allowing us to witness the dialogue between Miss Bartlett and Lucy, starting with mentioning of the mysterious Signora. What distinguishes his technique for catching our interest from the techniques used in some of the earlier passages would be, as mentioned before, the usage of dialogue between two characters who share a close friendship.

    Lucy and Miss Bartlett find themselves in a situation where they were expecting something to be a certain way, but they were disappointed with the outcome. As they arrived to their place of stay, they realized that they weren’t provided with the type of room nor view that they wanted. Miss Bartlett’s dissatisfaction had more to do with the fact that they weren’t provided with what the Signora promised. Lucy, on the other hand, was more dissatisfied about how it seemed like she was in London since there were many English people, portraits of English figures, and a nearby English church. For example, Lucy mentioned how “any nook does for me” in response to Miss Bartlett’s complaints of not having the view or room that she had wanted, further indicating that their desires aren’t the same.

    • You offer a great account of what makes the language of this narrative feel different from the language of the other two books. Why do you think Lucy is so troubled by all the signifiers of Englishness? What does she want?

  6. 1. This reading is different from the other passages because it doesn’t start off with a narration which makes it seem modern.
    2. This passage makes me want to read more because it make me eager to know what happens next due to Forster pulling us into the situation with emotions.
    3. Lucy and miss Bartlett arrived at the hotel and were dissatisfied with there new rooms. Miss Bartlett was more concerned about the view while Lucy was concerned how everything seemed to be english.

    • Everything you say here is right, but you could go into more detail. You say the passage doesn’t start off with narration, but what does it start off with? And what makes the opening feel modern? You say Forster pulls us into the situation with emotions. What emotions? How does he capture the emotions of the characters? And why do you think Lucy is bothered that everything seems so English in the hotel?

  7. 1.The two opening paragraphs we read in class was carried out in a presentation by an omniscient narrator, and the one the A Room with a View didn’t use it at all. It begins a story with dialogues. I think it feels more modern because the beginning of this kind casual conversation is intended to shorten the distance with the readers and strives to pull them in to the world of the book as soon as possible.

    2.Yes, I do want to read more. Author Foster starts the chapter in a casual way of conversation which is easy to pull the reader into her “narrative trap”. And in this way, it seems like a big screen formed and it is very three-dimensional that we are enjoying watching a movie and quickly immersed in it.

    3.They traveled to Italy, but they were disappointed that they couldn’t feel it at all. Because in the hotel, no mater decorations, the food, the people they saw that no different in London, especially the Signora what she spoken with a Cockney accent. We could find out the clues like “Signora’s expected accent”, “English people”, “this meat has surely been used for soup” “White bottles of water and red bottles of wine”,” portrait of late Queen and late poet Laureate”. And what dissatisfied them most was that the Signora didn’t keep the promise of the letter to arrange them the south rooms can see the Arno. In my opinion, they have the same desire, but due to Charlotte’s part of travel expenses are paid for by Lucy’s mother, at a certain point, she will give up if there were a room available.

    • I think you’re exactly right to say that the opening scene has a cinematic feel. But the narrator will become an important presence later on. Why do you think Lucy is so bothered that everything is English in the hotel. What is she looking for?

  8. 1.The opening passage from “ A Room with A View” is different from the other texts we consider in class because the passage gives us a scenario to begin with a lead of the issue. However, the texts we read in class makes us analyze the narrators point of view and no clear direction of the issue. One can tell this is a modern text by the back and forth dialog of the two character that was not present in the text we analyzed in class.

    2.Foster’s writing style is very intriguing and makes the reader want to keep reading and distinguishes him from the other writers text we have reviewed because he gave clear context on the issue from the start of the passage which hooks readers.

    3.The situation that Lucy and Miss Bartlett found themselves in is that they have been promised south facing rooms with a view of the Arno.However, they have received north facing rooms which made them dissatisfied. They do not have the same desires because Mary was more concerned about everything being very English themed while Miss Barlett was more saddened by not receiving the view of the Arno.

    • I think you’re very much right to say the narrative does not offer us very clear directions on how to read the situation. Why do you think Forster does this? What kind of narrator does he offer?

  9. 1.This passage is being told from a first person point of view compared to the others. The vocabulary still feels a bit olden but it does have characteristics of what is deemed as “proper” English.
    2. I do feel compelled to keep reading because I can visualize the story. Forster pulls me into the situation by having the characters engage in dialogue. The story drops you right into the middle of what seems like a plot. It’s different than the other passages because they did not do pull us in with a plot but more of a question.
    3. Both Lucy and Miss Bartlett arrived to The Signora expecting south facing rooms but were instead given rooms facing the north. They both desire the better room but desire even more to accommodate the other as they feel as though there is gratitude to be given.

    • You offer a good sense of how the narrative pulls in the reader. But to be clear, the novel is written in the 3rd person, not 1st person. There is no “I” here.

      You’re right about the two characters wanting to accommodate each other. But you’ll see as the narrative progresses that they have very different personalities.

  10. 1. Is distinguishably noticeable that it was not written in the 21st century but rather in a 20th century style. The narrator uses a more elegant and proper English which is also telling that the story is taking place in the 20th or even in the 19th century. I cannot distinguish anything modern from this passage.

    2. The way Forster starts the book/chapter does gives desire to keep reading. Forster opens the curiosity of the reader, and it starts to question why Signora gave miss Bartlett and Lucy a different room from what was offered. As a reader my curiosity led me to want to keep reading in order to find out more about Miss Bartlett, Lucy and about the room with a view which it was not giving to them by Signora. The author makes a connection between the title of the book and the beginning of the book. Which makes reader question, what is so unique about the room?

    3. There are two situations in which Lucy and Miss Bartlett find themselves in. One situation is more worrisome for Miss Bartlett which is not have the rooms with a view looking over at the Arno and the other situation is in which Lucy is disappointed that where they are going to stay it looks and feel like London. Miss lucy and Bartlett have different expectations for the trip. At the beginning of the passage Miss Bartlett expresses vehemently her disappointment of not having the rooms with a view and Lucy in the middle of the passage describes where they are staying looks like London and is disappointing to her.

  11. Some astute observations. But you might say a bit more about why the style seems old-fashioned to you. What about the language make you think it had to be produced in the early 20th century or late 19th century?

  12. 1. “The signora had no business to do it” (Forster 1) from this sentence alone I understand already that this was not written in modern times. The form of the language of the European English accent, we get a feel of how people used to speak in the past and the snottiness “this meat has surely been used for soup” (Forster 1) when someone is describing how their food is in modern times because of the health laws we don’t think about how the food was processed because we trust that the food being served is fresh. However if it doesn’t taste good we go straight to the point the meat is dry or the meat is overcooked.. etc.

    2. It was interesting and also amusing how Miss. Bartlett started complaining about their rooms which made me think why is this book named “A Room with A View” it instantly caught my attention and left me wanting to read more.

    3. They are dissatisfied because they traveled all the way from London to Florence to get a room with the most beautiful view, facing the Arno and it seems Miss Bartlett wanted those rooms for both Lucy and Charlotte especially. Lucy then starts feeling selfish after complaining about the room.

    • Some very good observations here about how we can tell the book is from an earlier era. And it’s true that Forster identifies the central concern of the book in the opening scene. Do you think a room with a view is a metaphor? For what?

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